homosexuals in the military

[bren122]

The whole point of this is not if homosexuals can serve in the military. That was settled years ago. The point is this: There is an agenda being pushed that homosexuals can and may openly display their homosexuality in the military. Now I ask this: If you are homosexual, how do you display your homosexuality openly? By actions, that's how. What does display mean? Look it up in the dictionary.

What- like pink uniforms, flowers in their rifle barrels and YMCA pumping over their personnel radios? Instead of the US Flag on their uniforms they can have Rainbow flags? Don't be stupid.

All it means is that they can act like normal people- have relationships, be open about their sexual preference, have their loved one attend their ceremony at Arlington, for example, and receive the flag, so their partner has rights for military pensions, etc.

[bren122]

So who is ready to be ordered to share living quarters or maybe shelter halves with gay military members. Remember you don't get a choice. How about a hazardous oversea station where everyone is restricted to base for the duration of the deployment?

This is the most retarded comment yet!
You don't get a choice in serving with blacks, Jews, Muslims, etc, either; I am sure that you could find some who would think that these people be banned.


What makes you think gays and lesbians can't keep their hands to themselves? I would have thought that since the really bad examples we hear from the military about sexual harrasment involve heterosexual males perhaps we should ban them from the military? They don't seem to be able to keep their hands to themselves.

It seems the ones you really have to watch out for are the narrow minded bigots who think that they can turn the clock back to 1930- or should that be 1390?

[kavic]

Brenn
Have you ever spent 90-180 days deployed to an area where no one could leave the base and there were no female at all. I have. The unit was on a high enough level of readiness that we kept a live round in the chamber of both our M16 and 45 sidearm. Gays were routinely killed by the locals and are still today. The last thing we needed would have been a couple of gay guys flaunting around for the locals to see or worse yet a lover spat to set off the powder keg we were sitting on.

Of course you don't hear anything about homosexual misconduct in the military, when it occurs they are discharged for conduct unbecoming or for the good of the service.

As far as Muslims serving in the military the Ft Hood Terrorist in past reports to his supervisors stated that all Muslims should be discharged fro the military. It should make us all think.

As I said near the beginning of this discussion, allowing gays to serve openly would be just the first step. Brenn appears to be advocating the second step already. Forcing the military to recognize gay marriage against the desire of close to 75% of the people in this country. That is what it would take to receive part of the pension and the flag at the grave. What next transgender Marines.

It has taken over 40 years for the Navy to fully integrate women onto all types of Naval ships and most aircraft squadrons. Throughout this massive circle jerk it has been the average sailor who has been screwed time after time. Each time the Navy opened up a career field to women without opening up all the shipboard and combat slots the the women the men got screwed. Sea time to shore duty time went up, chances of drawing a choice duty station went down. the same thing will happen with gays. Many countries won't allow gays to enter the country, or the beat up gay or kill them. We can't let that happen we'll protect them by keeping them home where it is safe and send another sailor for a second or third tour. Same shit all over again.

[Dudester]

Having served 11 years, I strongly feel that the military is not a user friendly organization. Although strides have been made since I served, there's a long way to go. It's not uncommon for the military to recruit an 18 year old, and discharge him three years later, having only trained him to one task-like loading bombs on planes. In civilian life, there's lots of slots for people with these skills [sarcasm].

The military should still recruit 18 year olds, but they should spend two years in community college. With degree in hand, now they should be trained for an MOS. At the very least, service members will get a college degree. The two years also gives a chance to gain some maturity.

There's a tremendous difference between the maturity of a 18 year old, and a 20 year old. This two year hitch will also give a chance to calm some raging hormones. Also, since physical fitness is such a necessity, the two years will give a chance for a physically undisciplined person to gain some fitness discipline-as opposed to a 8-14 week crash course that is set up to weed out the weak.

Lastly, since the business of America is business, it's become necessary to station American troops, in perpuity, in overseas duty stations. In places, like Japan, emotionally immature urban dwellers, who have never been beyond the end of their city block, find themself in a country with culture eons old. It's not uncommon for Japan to complain about the boorish behavior of a urban teenager. The US is embarassing themself by not preparing kids for deployments like this.

[Brigit Astar]

No, bren, it does not mean that--and you know it. So just stop the smarta** remarks, okay. You know good and well what I mean.

[bren122]

Brenn
Have you ever spent 90-180 days deployed to an area where no one could leave the base and there were no female at all. I have. The unit was on a high enough level of readiness that we kept a live round in the chamber of both our M16 and 45 sidearm. Gays were routinely killed by the locals and are still today. The last thing we needed would have been a couple of gay guys flaunting around for the locals to see or worse yet a lover spat to set off the powder keg we were sitting on. .

Bigoted stereotypes justified by a tired appeal to your previous military service; you probably had gays with you and didn't even realise because, like you, they were professionals.

Of course you don't hear anything about homosexual misconduct in the military, when it occurs they are discharged for conduct unbecoming or for the good of the service..

We hear about it; but the overwhelming bulk of problems are caused by heterosexual males. Of course we don't hear the full details or extent because these types band together and lie for each other and bully victims and witnesses into silence.

As far as Muslims serving in the military the Ft Hood Terrorist in past reports to his supervisors stated that all Muslims should be discharged fro the military. It should make us all think..

Another shot of bigotry? One Muslim runs amok and you brand every muslim in the military!

As I said near the beginning of this discussion, allowing gays to serve openly would be just the first step. Brenn appears to be advocating the second step already. Forcing the military to recognize gay marriage against the desire of close to 75% of the people in this country. That is what it would take to receive part of the pension and the flag at the grave. What next transgender Marines..

I am not advocating gay marriage; defacto wives have received the flag in the past; defacto wives receive the pension. How about sticking the topic?

It has taken over 40 years for the Navy to fully integrate women onto all types of Naval ships and most aircraft squadrons. Throughout this massive circle jerk it has been the average sailor who has been screwed time after time. Each time the Navy opened up a career field to women without opening up all the shipboard and combat slots the the women the men got screwed. Sea time to shore duty time went up, chances of drawing a choice duty station went down. the same thing will happen with gays. Many countries won't allow gays to enter the country, or the beat up gay or kill them. We can't let that happen we'll protect them by keeping them home where it is safe and send another sailor for a second or third tour. Same shit all over again.

The integration of women has been complicated by a continuing (American) cultural view that women don't belong in the military- there are no problems in the many other countries that have integrated women into the services- certainly not on the scale found in the US.

[bren122]

No, bren, it does not mean that--and you know it. So just stop the smarta** remarks, okay. You know good and well what I mean.

I do not know what you mean- I lost my Ouija board and decoder ring.

The only thing that you seem to have hinted at is the sort of behaviour that is on display in a Gay and Lesbian Pride parade; my "smart**se comments" were merely a device to ridicule the stereotype. Perhaps you could do something a little more helpful by actually saying what you mean?

[Brigit Astar]

perhaps you could stop being a smart a** and change your attitude

[bren122]

perhaps you could stop being a smart a** and change your attitude

Why should I change my attitude? Where in this thread have you done anything but try to steer the debate towards something other than a nudge-nudge, wink-wink stereotypical view of homosexual behaviour? Where do you set out what you think such changes mean? Or are you frightened that, having opened this debate and expected a certain response, a rational challenge to your views will make you look bad?
Instead of debating me on the points you have allowed your inferiority complex to provoke an emotional display of juvenile petulance; perhaps you should change your attitude?

[kavic]

Brenn

Quote:
Bigoted stereotypes justified by a tired appeal to your previous military service; you probably had gays with you and didn't even realise because, like you, they were professionals.

Sorry to disappoint you, but gays wouldn't have passed the security investigation to get into the unit.

Quote:
Another shot of bigotry? One Muslim runs amok and you brand every muslim in the military!

A couple of years before he ran amok he wrote and delivered to his supervisors reports calling for the discharge of all Muslims from the military. Since then multiple Muslim spiritual leaders have stated the only acceptable reason for a Muslim to be in the US military is to repeat what occurred at Ft Hood. So, yes I believe every Muslim in the military should go through a complete back ground investigation to the level equal to a top secret security clearance. If any issues turn up he or she should be discharged.

Islam is not a religion of peace! Under Islam you have three choices:1. convert to Islam, 2. submit to a life lower than a slave or 3. die.. This come from the Koran and is a core belief of Islam asmuch as Jesus is the son of God is a core Christian belief. NOT BIGOTRY FACT


Quote:
I am not advocating gay marriage; defacto wives have received the flag in the past; defacto wives receive the pension. How about sticking the topic?

Legal wives or legal next of kin can receive the flags or pensions not shack mates. For the surviving gay partner to receive them would require our nation to accept and legalize gay marriage against the beliefs and wishes of the vast majority of the country

Quote:
Why should I change my attitude? Where in this thread have you done anything but try to steer the debate towards something other than a nudge-nudge, wink-wink stereotypical view of homosexual behaviour? Where do you set out what you think such changes mean? Or are you frightened that, having opened this debate and expected a certain response, a Why should I change my attitude? Where in this thread have you done anything but try to steer the debate towards something other than a nudge-nudge, wink-wink stereotypical view of homosexual behaviour? Where do you set out what you think such changes mean? Or are you frightened that, having opened this debate and expected a certain response, a rational challenge to your views will make you look bad?
Instead of debating me on the points you have allowed your inferiority complex to provoke an emotional display of juvenile petulance; perhaps you should change your attitude?
__________________ will make you look bad?
Instead of debating me on the points you have allowed your inferiority complex to provoke an emotional display of juvenile petulance; perhaps you should change your attitude?

I think Brigit Astar has maid it clear enough that almost anyone should be capable of comprehending a very simple point of view. Under the current system of Don't Ask Don't Tell, any one may serve. If you choose to live a gay life style keep to yourself. (Don't Tell) They know the regulation when they join. Follow the regulations or your gone. Not just the ones you agree with but all of them.

As far as a rational challenge to her views or debating you on the points. There hasn't been any worth rebutting. The only point you have made is how stupid the British army was for resisting change in the late 1800s. Other than that you have had nothing but name calling for anyone who does agree with your viewpoint

[Brigit Astar]

I'm finished with posting on this thread. It's just going around in circles. bren has shown where's he coming from--he doesn't do anything but personally attack posters who state things which differ from his statements and point of view--in other words. he's very immature, almost infantile. I guarantee you he will respond with some juvenile, infantile statement which will have nothing to do with the subject but will only be a personal attack on someone. Nothig can really be done about this. I think--and hope--that bren will eventually grow up and mature and begin to understand that his is not the only view or way of seeing something. Until then, he is going to continue with his infantile, juvenile remarks.

So I see no point in continuing posting on this thread. I made my point in the very first post on thiis thread. If anyone cares to read it, it states clearly what the point is, and what the subject is.

[louisa_hottie]

Anybody who wants to serve our country, and fight to protect us should be allowed. It's not like gays are going to turn against us. They are just willing, determined men and women wanting to show their love for the country in which they and their family lives.

[Saffer]

The whole thread was getting a little confusing...but someone sent me this pic the other day, and I found it rather humourous.

[~*Rain*~]

I think as long as they know their job and do it right then what does it matter. I know plenty of straight guys in the military that fuck up a bunch that the gay man didnt. As long as they know what they are doing and not putting other soldiers in harms way then whatever. They are bigger than me because they have stepped up to protect this country and if they do that with pride and dignity then so be it thats what they all are in it for.


(I am not in the army so i dont know if my opinion is valid but i am an army wife and see some of this stuff)

[Dudester]

I (I am not in the army so i dont know if my opinion is valid but i am an army wife and see some of this stuff)

Ask your husband how he would feel sleeping three feet from a gay person. Ask him how he'd feel showering with a gay person. Ask him how he'd feel having to share a control panel with a gay person. Ask him how he'd feel going on a long run with a gay person. As for that matter, how would you ?

One of my favorite service stories involves two women. One is Amanda, a petite, and very proper southern girl, engaged to an officer. The other is Amy, a chunky gal, who didn't always fit in in groups.

Amanda was getting ready for a date. Amy was in the room and the two women were talking. Suddenly, Amy blurts out, "I just want to pin you to the bed and make sweet love all over you."

Needless to say, Amanda wasn't enthused about being in a room with a person twice her size, who announced something Amanda was brought up to believe something very improper. Amanda fled the room as soon as she could. Later, Amanda said "And to believe that I showered in the same room at her, when she looked at me......" (Amanda shook).

[Brigit Astar]

Believe it or not, but there are limits. That is something that the ones pushing certain agendas do not understand. They believe that if they push their agenda hard enough, it will become "normal" and accepted without qiuestion. They are out of touch with reality. They have no conception of reality when it comes to pushing their agenda. All they are concerned about is that their agenda be accepted as normal. They do not understand that some things cannot and will not be accepted by the majority.

[~*Rain*~]

Ask your husband how he would feel sleeping three feet from a gay person. Ask him how he'd feel showering with a gay person. Ask him how he'd feel having to share a control panel with a gay person. Ask him how he'd feel going on a long run with a gay person. As for that matter, how would you ?

One of my favorite service stories involves two women. One is Amanda, a petite, and very proper southern girl, engaged to an officer. The other is Amy, a chunky gal, who didn't always fit in in groups.

Amanda was getting ready for a date. Amy was in the room and the two women were talking. Suddenly, Amy blurts out, "I just want to pin you to the bed and make sweet love all over you."

Needless to say, Amanda wasn't enthused about being in a room with a person twice her size, who announced something Amanda was brought up to believe something very improper. Amanda fled the room as soon as she could. Later, Amanda said "And to believe that I showered in the same room at her, when she looked at me......" (Amanda shook).

I'll have to ask him and get back to that part. As for me...several of my friends were gay. I've changed in front of them and everything. Its not like because they are Gay they are just humping air all the damn time. Just because your gay doesnt mean your want sex 24/7. My husband this deployment is around females but he doesnt jump em and try to fuck em every chance he gets and i really dont see gays in the military just going super nuts and wanting to do that. To me the most important thing is that they know their job and watch out for their fellow soldiers thats all that matters to me is the safety of the soldiers...i believe my husband can fend for himself if he gets hit on.

[usafslut]

this is a very interesting thread. I am bi-sexual and as most of you know, I lean very hard to the lesbian part of me, especially in relationships. I am also an officer and as such, as some of you have posted here, there are rules about who can sleep with who. which is more strict honestly, than what sex that person is. If you want to have fun with a thread take up the new ruling being discussed about women being allowed on subs. I can just imagine that on our subs today, with people in those confined quarters for 4 - 6 months, that every bunk mate must know what everyones dick looks like after a tour-- but I honestly haven't met one as i work on the air side of things---
Anyway back to to the subject-- i personally feel that base type romance is just something to try to stay away from, straight or gay- but when it comes down to it in battle, if you lose your best friend or a guy you just blew, or a girl you just ate out, the emotion is the same-- most best friends are just as close--

[comsmith22]

this is a very interesting thread. I am bi-sexual and as most of you know, I lean very hard to the lesbian part of me, especially in relationships. I am also an officer and as such, as some of you have posted here, there are rules about who can sleep with who. which is more strict honestly, than what sex that person is. If you want to have fun with a thread take up the new ruling being discussed about women being allowed on subs. I can just imagine that on our subs today, with people in those confined quarters for 4 - 6 months, that every bunk mate must know what everyones dick looks like after a tour-- but I honestly haven't met one as i work on the air side of things---
Anyway back to to the subject-- i personally feel that base type romance is just something to try to stay away from, straight or gay- but when it comes down to it in battle, if you lose your best friend or a guy you just blew, or a girl you just ate out, the emotion is the same-- most best friends are just as close--

That goes along with the Line " when the Bullets are Flying ... there are no atheist in a foxhole" ... been there Done that

[comsmith22]

Just a little Update...

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/62387

[kcid56]

I was in the Army (US) for 26 years. During that time I got know Many guys who were BI and many who were out right Gay.
In the Early 70's many good troops were discharged because they were Gay. Their Dedication to Duty and Country was beyond question. In some situations I was uncomfortable around them, but ignored the feelings and got past it.

My Position is what they do behind closed doors, and on their own time, Is their business. I don't Need to know what they are up to, or with whom. and when I am off duty it's no one else business, Unless it effects the morale and abilities of the Unit.
The Public Display of Affection in uniform is or was prohibited... so there should be no physical contact and that should eliminate any problems there.
So as Long as a Gay/Lesbian maintains a mature and professional attitude, can meet the required performance standards, and get the Job done, I have No problem with them.

A couple things folks need to keep in mind... some cultures or Countries, Openly accept Gay/Lesbians... while other countries or cultures totally shun/ban them. To put the Gay Military Personnel in some of these areas may cause some problems.
Personally I don't care... as a Platoon, Detachment, and Company 1st Sergeant, the "Don't ask Don't tell " Policy should stay in place, both for the well being of the Personnel involved and for the Branch of Service.

I know its a Cheep shot and the Ranting of an old man ... but I dealt with this from the time I enlisted in 1973 till I retired in 1999 ... and I saw what it did to many good People... Both Male and Female...
The Only Transgender I dealt with was a Battalion Commander and a complete rectal orifice and a highly educated Idiot as a guy, and a total blithering Idiot as a "She-male". But "TPOTUS*" found It a Job on his Staff some where for Him/her/it.... after He/She/It playing the sexual discrimination and harassment Cards...

I am through shooting off my mouth... but thats my "2 baht" worth...
* TPOTUS ... "The President of the United States".

I am retired USN. As with any branch of any military in any country, there are gays and lesbians serving, and to say that one can't serve his or her country for this reason is crazy. First of all, anyone that feels that a gay or lesbian is going to "HIT ON YOU" get over yourself, then, get over your fobia's.

Now, Someone mentioned the DON'T ASK, DON'T TELL policy that the Clinton administration put in place. Let me tell you the honest truth about that. It is the same rule that was in effect for years. Basically, if you didn't want anyone to know you were gay, don't tell them. The don't ask aspect was the only change in policy. Oh and, if you were gay and someone asked if you were gay, chances are, you were going to deny it anyway, except for my cousin.... but that's another story.

Some of my better ship mates were gay, and never once did I slip them my wet willy. If I needed release, I got it solo. In all my years, serving on 5 ships, there was only 1 instance of someone getting caught.

This entire position is totally political. Obama is doing it to please the gay and lesbian community, and maybe to piss off the religious right as well, but it's not going to make much of a difference in the day to day operations of our military.

One more point, Open expression of affection is (was) not permitted in uniform, so walking down the street in uniform, you are not allowed to even hold hands.. nevermind someones ass. So, again, What is the big deal?

[jakemaughan]

there are both women and men in the military so saying that people should not be allowed to declare themselves homosexual to avoid relationships in the military is ridiculous as you can just as easily have heterosexual relationships. Also saying the is no difference between homosexuals and heterosexuals apart from their sexual preference, everyone should be held to the same standards regardless of their sexual preferences.

[jakemaughan]

oh and to add to that, no matter their sexual preference and whether or not they chose to express this.

[cindy22m]

A persons sexuality should not stop them from being in the military or any other job. I don't think they should flaunt it, but they should not have to hide it.

[jrwolfman11]

To the OP and everyone else that believe the statement "that it will be legal for homosexuals in the military to display their sexuality".

No one in the military can "openly" display their sexuality. If you consider a peck on the cheek, hug or peck on the lips sexuality then continue to believe but myself would not consider that a sexual display. No one in the US Military can openly display sexual contact ie; making out and the hard stuff. That is a little different than a peck on the cheek, kiss goodbye- i'm sure you get my point.

It's an all volunteer force and the US Military Members that cant deal with it can just not reenlist when their contract is up, face the military justice system for causing problems or follow and obey the orders put into place by the leaders. It's that simple.

And no I am not homosexual I jsu believe in standing up for "any" American Citizen that is willing to defend my rights along with me to write what I just did.

Yes, I served 26 years without any problems with the homosexuals I and everyone else knew.

[GhostRider]

Brigit are u in the military now? If not STFU! Homosexuals who have been CLOSETED have been DISCHARGED under the DADT policy. THATS the problem you silly goose! Geezus fvcking Christ.

And Kavic - Islam is a religion of peace as much as ANY religion is.

Why are ppl on this board so fvcking stupid?

As for my credentials: 3 yrs in the Canadian army which has been integrated sexual orientation-wise for probably a decade or something. I have NO problem being around gay soldiers and if you think that the removal of DADT is going to turn professional gay soldiers into flaming horny weirdos who go around checking out guy's dicks you're fucking insane. Geezus fvck

[GhostRider]

Apologies for the tone of my prev post. I was just a bit angry is all. In Afghanistan the United States was among the ONLY Countries that didn't allow gays to openly serve (openly meaning serve at ALL). UK, Australia, Canada, even Israel all have a completely integrated military. About the only countries that DIDNT allow gays were Islamic ones!

[Brigit Astar]

Why are you so angry?

[megan]

I knew a girl who was in the services for 2 years and she said most of the girls were deemed to be lesbian - some were BUT - mostly they would not accept dates with other servicemen because generally all the guys wanted and expected was sex - so they were automatically called lesbians beacuse they declined the date. Like her, they were not going to be taken for granted and I dont blame them.
Occasionally one (like her) were very selective and would form a realtionship with a guy and enjoyed their sex - if they did it - in a more passionate way. Those that didnt mind and dated casually usually had many relationships and then got the reputation of being a slut.
She was definitely Bi and she had enjoyable times with us (FWB) for a time following her discharge.
In my industry I can definitely say there are gays in the services - particularly the Navy - when a ship is in port we get lots of male couples taking rooms and when they leave - there is no doubt they are gay.

[GhostRider]

Because you are misconstruing military policy to fit your own ends and not understanding the huge problem with DADT. The problem wasn't being "open" with your sexuality or not - most ppl straight or gay don't do the whole PDA thing anyway unless they are 16. The problem is being THOUGHT of as gay under the prev policy could get you dishonorably discharged. Thats WHY DADT needed to end. Clinton put it in as a stop gap measure so that gay ppl could serve without fear of being thrown out of the military unless they openly admitted they were gay, btu the policy as it stood was untenable and so needed to be revised.